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@everyone I've created a public google calendar to use to organise our events. Since we can't figure out how to integrate google calendar into Zulip, and we also can't pin things to the stream, I propose the following: every time anyone adds a new event to the calendar, re-post the calendar link in this stream, together with the details of your seminar
https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=N3EyZDZucTd1aXViNDJpbnFwNmg0ZmdyODBAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ
It's asking me to login into a Google Account to see it
Huhhh. I have it set to public
Oh, google account. right
That's probably a "feature" of google calendar
This could be a problem, I know some people don't submit their souls to our google overlords. I wonder if there's a decent open source alternative...
I had a quick glance at framasoft, they do have a calendar thingy but it asks for registration. It's probably the case that you only need to register to create a calendar, not to view it.
Yeah, I don't have a Google Account myself
I'll move the discussion about google calendar alternatives onto #meta. In the meantime, anyone who doesn't want to use it should still be able to find each event posted in this stream, just with some mental overhead to put them in the right order
You can definitely make a Google calendar public without viewers needing an account.
the help pages seem to suggest it is possible to share a google calendar with people who don’t have a google account? If you just changed the setting to “make available to public”, it might not have kicked in yet
Also, if you haven't seen: https://zulipchat.com/integrations/doc/google-calendar
But I'm all for open-source alternatives. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
Ok, it may be it hasn't kicked in yet. Keep trying I guess
So far we haven't had anyone who both understands the words written on that page and also has the time to deal with it. Since we're running on the Zulip cloud and not on a server, it doesn't even start to make sense to me
This is great! Can you also share the iCal address for this google calender? (I believe it can be found in the sharing setting of google calender)
hopefully that's it
Yes that's it: thanks!
By the way, I'll add the already-posted events to the calendar myself when I get bored some time, if nobody else does it first
Jules Hedges said:
I've created a public google calendar to use to organise our events. Since we can't figure out how to integrate google calendar into Zulip, and we also can't pin things to the stream, I propose the following: every time anyone adds a new event to the calendar, re-post the calendar link in this stream, together with the details of your seminar
https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=N3EyZDZucTd1aXViNDJpbnFwNmg0ZmdyODBAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ
Let me research calendar integration a bit. There are bots available.
Ok, the calendar bot is the most useless thing I've ever seen. You just configure it on a private server and it will bother designated users with useless notifications.
Hubot has Google calendar and iCal integrations. Also loads of other stuff.
Another bummer is that zulip does not support pinned messages yet, so things like the calendar link Jules created will be inevitably lost at some point
What I hope is that if it gets continually re-posted enough times, eventually everybody will get the idea
Jules Hedges said:
This works without authentication!
^ This google calendar gives me a 404 error
That's very weird, is anyone else getting that?
Still works for me
It's not giving me the option to add an event to this calendar. How do I get edit permission?
argh, all the problems
I don't understand how to allow anyone to edit. It doesn't seem to be possible......
Ok, apparently I can only give edit access on an individual basis. That makes google calendar not suitable for this
I mean, do you want everyone to edit it? or just organizers of seminars?
it seems reasonable to ask event organisers to contact you to be invited to edit it
there won't be too many organisers
(though a few should have admin access, so there's not a single point of failure)
I had intended that anyone could edit it. Maybe it could still work, but it sounds a lot more annoying
There are a lot of events happening all around. so yes, "everyone can edit" seems the best policy to me
Well, as far as I can tell that is impossible with google calendar. So... next!
Yes, also now that we figured out the integration with zulip is useless, there's no need to stick to google.
The main problem I am concerned with is how do we let the link survive tho, it will be inevitably lost in the stream of messages.
We'll be doing a lot of organizing over the next week or two. we'll have streams everyone is subscribed to, and designated topics for announcements. If we need an external place to organize links, we may end up making a little webpage for this server, with the guide/constitution/calendar/etc.
As long as we show we've been doing some work to make this better each time, people won't mind the use of "@ everyone" to get their attention.
Jules Hedges said:
Well, as far as I can tell that is impossible with google calendar. So... next!
Hm, I'm pretty sure that it's possible to let everyone edit... or maybe that would involve inviting everyone to the calendar personally. Maybe that's not a terrible thing? I don't know. I guess for now we can ask the hosts to update with their events.
i tried to open the google calendar and it appears empty
Put something in it then. :slight_smile:
I just tried to add the UCR events to this calendar but I was told I had to pick an app to interact with it, so I did that and then I was told I had to "add an account", without explanation of what that means. Too much work for me!
I was hoping I could just click and get a Google Calendar webpage.
I think @Jules Hedges hasn't added people to edit it yet. Or he gave up on it, and is looking for an easier option for us.
Okay.
I did sort of give up, waiting for someone to come up with a community calendar that can be freely edited without invitation
Please, can someone figure out how to set up a Google calendar (or other calendar) that's easy for crowds to edit? By now I'm eager to start dumping information into it. There's the UCR seminar on categories, the MIT seminar, the HoTT seminar...
I'm looking into it! :slight_smile:
I can make a calendar that anyone can view, and I can invite people to edit
and the people I invite can also invite other people
I think this should be good enough
I'm looking at alternatives other than Google
if someone shares/PMs me their email address, I can add them to the permissions
I mean what we need is outright dumb, just a stupid javascript in-browser thing, I don't wanna believe no one ever made it before
you need a server, not just client-side code
I also don't think having a publicly editable calendar is even necessary a good thing
Absolutely, I'm looking for free offer for it.
Nathanael Arkor said:
I also don't think having a publicly editable calendar is even necessary a good thing
I think it is
you're assuming that anyone who finds the link is well-behaved
which I don't believe is a reasonable assumption
That's the basic assumption that keeps this whole community alive for the moment, yes.
no it's not
we have moderation on Zulip
just because we haven't had to use it yet doesn't mean that it's not important
ooh, I've had an idea of how to make this work
we need an email address that multiple people can access
and then we can give it out to anyone who is responsible for organising events
What I am saying is that - for now - and having managed the ACT telegram group for a few months without any problem, I am not expecting a bunch of rogue trolls to come adding weird stuff to the calendar. I understand the need for moderation, but especially with something like a calendar I don't think it's super critical
Nathanael Arkor said:
and then we can give it out to anyone who is responsible for organising events
This is a good idea
And a nice compromise
Do you want to create it or should I do it?
I'm on it :+1:
Thanks folks. Sorry, I ran out of energy to deal with it, happy someone else is doing so
edited: let's use a different strategy to share the calendars
and there's a Google Mail account categorytheoryseminars@gmail.com that's in control of the calendar — I can give access to anyone who wants to add seminar information
the time zone is UTC for simplicity
okay, there's still a problem, which is that the share link doesn't include other calendars that have been added
e.g. if we want to merge someone else's calendar, this won't be included in the share link by default
we can generate a link, but this won't update the shared calendar for everyone who's already added it
Nathanael Arkor said:
e.g. if we want to merge someone else's calendar, this won't be included in the share link by default
So what are those two links for?
Specific snapshots of the calendar?
so we either only add to the main categorytheoryseminars calendar, or people have to periodically check to see if more calendars have been added
So what are those two links for?
these two links are for the main categorytheoryseminars calendar, without any extra calendars
(they're both the same, just different formats)
Yeah but if they don't update when you update the calendar, what are they pointing to?
they will see all the events on the main calendar, but say I add another, external, calendar to the account (e.g. the HoTTEST seminar), then they won't see any of those events, unless they're manually moved across
ok now I get it
Maybe it's a good thing? So we can vet the additions?
Maybe separate calendars for each seminar would be even more manageable for ppl who don't want to follow everything
yeah, it's not necessarily a bad thing — but we want a way to tell people that more seminars have been added
let's use a topic here
that could be enough, yes
can moderators open a topic with restricted access?
something like a telegram channel
so it doesn't get polluted with replies and stuff
I think so, yes
okay, it would be good to have a webpage where this could be hosted
which always has the up-to-date link
@Brendan Fong, @Paolo Perrone: do you have an existing calendar for the MIT seminar?
I volunteer to be an editor.
Is this something that needs editors? It's supposed to be a calendar putting together dates from a few other existing seminars, right? So, like someone should just run https://github.com/agraboso/merge_ics (or similar) somewhere, feeding it a list of the URLs for the calendars of those seminars.
can moderators open a topic with restricted access?
I believe they can open a channel with restricted access.
We don't. Can I have access to the gmail account, to add an MIT category seminar calendar?
By the way, very good ideas, everyone. Thanks for this.
How many category theorists does it take to create a calendar? :upside_down: I'm surprised at how hard this is. I have no idea how to make a publicly visible calendar that only certain people can edit, but I would have guessed it was easy.
Paolo Perrone said:
We don't. Can I have access to the gmail account, to add an MIT category seminar calendar?
Ok, now we have one! https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=fiadgnrrirqgjqe55r6q447mfc%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America%2FToronto
the nLab seems like a good place to put it, but we'd need to embed HTML, which surely isn't possible
I formalize my proposal to have a "read-only" stream where to post links to calendars of seminars/events, ditching a single big CT calendar. We just need a mod to create it. I only knwi @Christian Williams is? Is there anyone else in this timezone?
We plan to create an announcements channel. The problem with using a stream to link to events is that:
I thought that stream was this stream.
This stream is for everyone to post into, while @Matteo Capucci was suggesting a read only solution where only admins can post
But I agree with you, Fabrizio, that we need a single calendar so that on a given day people can see what choices of seminars there are to attend.
So the solution I propose is an "Announcements" stream that is read-only, and a topic there that is "Calendar" with exactly one message, the link to the calendar. That's the closest approximation to "pin a message on top" that we have at the moment.
Sounds good to me!
Sounds good to me.
I looked for some alternative services to handle this community calendar thing. I stumbled upon TeamUp, which does exactly that and has a lot of options for administration and so on. It also supports iCal feeds so that it can become more of an hub where to show many independent calendars. I setup a demo here : https://teamup.com/ksn21up4c5uamm8ioz
Unfortunately the free plan allows only 8 calendars and 8 (admin-ish) users. There's a free premium upgrade for 3 months for the pandemic, but then we'd have to resort to begging a free plan, like here on Zulip.
I think the app is cool enough to give it a shot
How much does it cost if you pay for it?
It's 20$x12=240$ for the first decent option (50 'calendars', e.g. 50 running seminars)
Here's the pricing https://www.teamup.com/pricing/
Matteo Capucci said:
It's 20$x12=240$ for the first decent option (50 'calendars', e.g. 50 running seminars)
Is it clear what I (actually TeamUp) mean by 'calendar'?
@John Baez I think you replied on the wrong stream. BTW the correct name is 'sub-calendar', sorry. Maybe it's more clear: a 'calendar' for teamup is just a view on many 'subcalendars'.
So for us it means that for now we can plug only 8 independent sub-calendars, i.e. I can show only 8 iCal feeds from people organizing seminars
I'll dig a little more the internets though
Matteo Capucci said:
Unfortunately the free plan allows only 8 calendars and 8 (admin-ish) users. There's a free premium upgrade for 3 months for the pandemic, but then we'd have to resort to begging a free plan, like here on Zulip.
Maybe let's try to contact them for a sponsor? @Christian Williams did so with Zulip and they are hosting us for free :slight_smile:
Yeah that's what I was trying to say
Hey folks, in absence of new proposals for a calendar app, and since @Daniel Geisler setup a webpage, I believe we should tale advantage of the TeamUp calendar I setup
Here's a link to add events: https://teamup.com/ksfss6k4j1bxc8vztb
@Christian Williams @Joe Moeller you could start by adding the next UCR seminars
@Noah Chrein you may add UMD seminars as well
@Daniel Geisler here's a wizard to create an embedded (i.e. iframe-able) version of the calendar:
https://teamup.com/embed/ksrceni9ttyhioaf86
It might also be useful to link to the iCalendar feed:
looks great! thanks. how do we add a calendar for ACT@UCR?
Ouch, I thought you could add calendars, not just events.
Can folks check the calendar out and tell me what information I'm missing. I just imported an iCal file only to discover it has no new information.
@Daniel Geisler: did you see my message in #categorytheoryseminars calendar?
@Nathanael Arkor Yes, I saw your message. I imported the info, no problem there. But there were only nine items and they were already in the calendar I had up. That's why I'm asking people to check for important information on the current calendar before having me merge other calendars with the same information.
the Google Calendar has all the 4 subcalendars already
whereas the teamup one is missing the HoTTEST seminar and the UCR seminar
I also don't see how to import the teamup calendar to one's personal calendar
so I think including the Google Calender is going to be more convenient, if possible
Thanks, I'm on it.
@Daniel Geisler: just in case you're not familiar (it's not very intuitive), you can export all the calendars in one by going to the settings of any one calendar, then clicking the "Customise" button under the iframe code and then checking all the calendars in the bottom left
the only awkward thing is that if anyone adds a calendar to the Google Calendar, I think the iframe source will change — but hopefully this will be relatively uncommon and we can ping you when it does
Folks, we already had this conversation. GCalendar is not suitable to our purposes bc the embedded calendar doesn't refresh, plus not everyone uses Google products. So we ditched it.
To add events to the TeamUp calendar, there's a link above. If people want to add a calendar, they can write here
@Christian Williams has admin rights on TeamUp as well, he can add UCR seminars. I can give it to other people, if needed-
Matteo Capucci said:
Ouch, I thought you could add calendars, not just events.
sorry, I interpreted this as saying that TeamUp was also not quite fit-for-purpose, because you have to add each event manually
can we instead add a calendar from another source to TeamUp?
Nathanael Arkor said:
Matteo Capucci said:
Ouch, I thought you could add calendars, not just events.
sorry, I interpreted this as saying that TeamUp was also not quite fit-for-purpose, because you have to add each event manually
Sorry, my message could have been confusing indeed.
To add a whole calendar you need to be admin. Currently only me and Christian are admins, so you can tell me what to add.
I've addedd the HoTTest seminar, and I expect @Christian Williams or @Joe Moeller to add a calendar for UCR
Nathanael Arkor said:
can we instead add a calendar from another source to TeamUp?
Yes, it supports iCal feeds. In fact, as of now we are actually displaying three iCal feeds
okay, so it seems both Google Calendar and TeamUp can be used to achieve the same goals — so it seems best to let @Daniel Geisler decide which is easier for him
it looks like TeamUp could be simpler, if you never need to update the iframe source?
Idk but @Fabrizio Genovese reported he didn't succeed to have the iframe updating with new calendars/events.
What? I didn'y say that
Oh
Did I dream that up?
I think someone said that google cal in iframe allowed to display multiple calendars at the same time, and I quoted this fact myself afterwards, but I never said anything about iframe updates
Nathanael Arkor said:
e.g. if we want to merge someone else's calendar, this won't be included in the share link by default
This is what I'm talking about
I don't know why I thought it was you @Fabrizio Genovese :joy:
Quarantine is messing with my brain
Welcome to the club!
What timezone is the teamup using?
@Matteo Capucci: sorry, the discussions about calendars have been spread over too many streams/topics
the status now is that @Daniel Geisler needs to update the iframe source if someone adds a calendar to the Google Calendar
if that's not necessary for TeamUp, and there aren't any other drawbacks, then I imagine that would be more convenient
Nathanael Arkor said:
if that's not necessary for TeamUp, and there aren't any other drawbacks, then I imagine that would be more convenient
It shouldn't!
Christian Williams said:
What timezone is the teamup using?
The one you're in when you edit.
The other option is to use UTC by default, but then viewers have to convert by themselves
UTC by default seems like the best choice here
if there's an option to change the time zone in the iframe, even better
Well if it detects someone's timezone when they look at it, that seems pretty ideal. Why make people think?
oh, can it use the user's time zone if they're not the ones editing?
that is better
Nathanael Arkor said:
oh, can it use the user's time zone if they're not the ones editing?
yes
they've mastered time