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Jade Master (May 08 2023 at 09:02):Fabrizio Genovese said:
By the way I share ALL of your concerns. And besides the usual 'let's talk about it' I believe the only solution is to make the whole review process open. If reviewers have to 'own' the review, you can be sure that stuff like 'doing favors'/'reading only superficially'/'not caring enough' would have a completely different weight. Coming from one of the most mafia-infested regions in the world I know for a fact that the sort of behavior you fear thrives when it can't be seen.
I think you make some good points in favor of open review and I sympathize with your point of view. How would you propose incentivizing people to review when the budget is about 0? I worry that having totally public reviews will make it so less people agree to review.
Jade Master (May 08 2023 at 09:12):Another problem is if the author of a submission holds a lot of sway, a grad student may not want to publicly leave them a bad review. Especially if it is a person who has some level of control over their future.
Jade Master (May 08 2023 at 09:51):And also if a professor leaves a bad review for a student it could be very cruel.
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (May 08 2023 at 10:13):I share Jade's concern. Being anonymous as a reviewer means I can be frank and direct and not apologetic or shy about my opinions.
I wouldn't be comfortable writing reviews with my full name on it and then go on about meeting the people at the conference. I fear it would steer petty hostilities, or worse, make reviews dull just to be nice.
What has to be fought is people not doing their job as reviewers, or being unnecessarily harsh. Deanonymizing reviews can have this effect but also other undesired side effects.
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (May 08 2023 at 10:15):Fabrizio Genovese said:
Make :clap: the :clap: review :clap: process :clap: open
Also how is this related to Cole's concerns about the PC composition? Unless you're suggesting one can objectively judge whether a review was unfairly kind/unkind so openness would fix that, which I strongly doubt.
Amar Hadzihasanovic (May 08 2023 at 10:41):I believe one of the shades of “open review” is to have the reviews publicly readable, but still anonymous. This comes with its own problems but it would alleviate some of the ones just mentioned.
Fabrizio Genovese (May 08 2023 at 10:44):Jade Master said:
Fabrizio Genovese said:
By the way I share ALL of your concerns. And besides the usual 'let's talk about it' I believe the only solution is to make the whole review process open. If reviewers have to 'own' the review, you can be sure that stuff like 'doing favors'/'reading only superficially'/'not caring enough' would have a completely different weight. Coming from one of the most mafia-infested regions in the world I know for a fact that the sort of behavior you fear thrives when it can't be seen.
I think you make some good points in favor of open review and I sympathize with your point of view. How would you propose incentivizing people to review when the budget is about 0? I worry that having totally public reviews will make it so less people agree to review.
Well, I am strongly in favor to attaching reviews to the paper before it gets into the proceeding. In this case, you would give a BIG incentive to reviewers to actually contribute and make the paper better, because the reviews become part of the paper.
Fabrizio Genovese (May 08 2023 at 10:44):Matteo Capucci (he/him) said:
I share Jade's concern. Being anonymous as a reviewer means I can be frank and direct and not apologetic or shy about my opinions.
I wouldn't be comfortable writing reviews with my full name on it and then go on about meeting the people at the conference. I fear it would steer petty hostilities, or worse, make reviews dull just to be nice.What has to be fought is people not doing their job as reviewers, or being unnecessarily harsh. Deanonymizing reviews can have this effect but also other undesired side effects.
The whole point is that you can be frank and direct without being a dick. And in a community of grown ups that should be the standard.
Fabrizio Genovese (May 08 2023 at 10:46):Matteo Capucci (he/him) said:
Fabrizio Genovese said:
Make :clap: the :clap: review :clap: process :clap: open
Also how is this related to Cole's concerns about the PC composition? Unless you're suggesting one can objectively judge whether a review was unfairly kind/unkind so openness would fix that, which I strongly doubt.
You can definitely judge that if someone gets three negative reviews from three people that work closely together (or are in the same group) and whose work is somewhat opposed/in competition with yours, then something may be improved.
Fabrizio Genovese (May 08 2023 at 10:47):In any case, I think that the whole concept of 'conference' in C.E. 2023 should probably be rethought a bit. But this is not the place for such a discussion, so if someone is interested, we can move on some other topic.
Fabrizio Genovese (May 08 2023 at 10:48):Amar Hadzihasanovic said:
I believe one of the shades of “open review” is to have the reviews publicly readable, but still anonymous. This comes with its own problems but it would alleviate some of the ones just mentioned.
This would improve things also because reviews are not anonymous for people in the PC. So if a review gets a lot of criticism, people in the PC will hopefully take note.
Jules Hedges (May 08 2023 at 11:18):Fabrizio Genovese said:
Make :clap: the :clap: review :clap: process :clap: open
It's one of the things we considered last year. We didn't have the energy to deal with such a complex issue at the same time as, y'know, organising a conference
Jules Hedges (May 08 2023 at 11:20):In my opinion this is something the community should decide, not individual organisers or even the steering committee, which is luckily what we're doing right now (although the steering committee do literally have the final say)
Morgan Rogers (he/him) (May 09 2023 at 05:25):There are some hypothetical concerns about open review that have been expressed here; why don't we "just" try a specific version of this option next time, and see how it goes? If these problems actually do arise, we can adapt and improve in the next iteration. It's worth noting that even this time there were enough submissions (and enough variety in the submissions) that I would find it very surprising if everyone was not able to avoid a conflict of interest in the papers they review.
John Baez (May 09 2023 at 05:36):I guess part of the question is: who is "we"? There are a lot of people involved in running the ACT conference. Only a small fraction are here on this Zulip. Of them only a small fraction have expressed support for open review - maybe < 5 people so far? So reaching some sort of consensus that this is an experiment worth trying would take a lot of conversations.
John Baez (May 09 2023 at 05:37):(I have no strong opinions one way or another myself, btw.)
John Baez (May 09 2023 at 05:38):Maybe we should move this conversation to some other stream, like "ACT2024".
John Baez (May 09 2023 at 05:38):(Btw, has anyone expressed interest in running ACT2024? I feel I've heard something about this, but I can't remember what!)
Notification Bot (May 09 2023 at 06:58):18 messages were moved here from #general: events > ACT 2023 by Morgan Rogers (he/him).
Morgan Rogers (he/him) (May 09 2023 at 07:00):John Baez said:
I guess part of the question is: who is "we"?
Entirely valid question, I made that proposal in spite of having a smaller stake in the results than many others. I hope this possibility gets discussed in the preparation of the next conference, though!
John Baez (May 09 2023 at 07:07):I'll try to remember to bring it up.
Jules Hedges (May 09 2023 at 14:59):A possibly good option would be for some of the interested people to run a smaller (possibly affiliated) workshop with published proceedings and use that as an experimental testbed for alt-review
Jules Hedges (May 09 2023 at 15:00):I remember that last ACT I used my tiny bit of post-covid energy to say we need to have some smaller affiliated workshops to take pressure off ACT; I then completely forgot about it so I haven't actually organised anything this year
John Baez (May 09 2023 at 15:06):There exist such smaller affiliated workshops: SYCO! We even had one here in California. These don't usually publish proceedings. But someone could do SYCO with proceedings... and call it PSYCO.
Paolo Perrone (Jun 17 2023 at 08:07):Is there already any plan in place for where ACT '24 will be?
John Baez (Jun 17 2023 at 14:04):Not that I've heard of. If someone has volunteered to run ACT 2024, maybe @James Fairbanks or @Joe Moeller or @Sam Staton or @Christina Vasilakopoulou might know.
James Fairbanks (Jun 17 2023 at 23:10):I do not think anyone on the current committee is locked in to host it next year. Based on our experience together this year, I would be happy to recommend anyone on the current committee for an important assignment such as general or local chair next year.
I also would like to get to a point where we plan two years out. For example appointing both a 2024 and 2025 committee this August and then appoint the 2026 committee by Aug 2024.
I’m happy to discuss the roles with anyone who would like to volunteer.
Christina Vasilakopoulou (Jun 19 2023 at 06:40):Noone has volunteered for next year, to my knowledge!
Xuanrui Qi (Jun 19 2023 at 09:04):speaking of location, all editions of ACT up to 2023 have been held in North America or Europe, and it would be great if we could have it held somewhere else this time, e.g. in Asia
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (Jun 19 2023 at 10:14):Perhaps Australia has a concentration of (applied?) category theorists high enough to motivate the remoteness
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (Jun 19 2023 at 10:14):But this is all conditional on having people willing to host
Jules Hedges (Jun 19 2023 at 11:08):Right... lots of conferences get stuck in a sort of vicious circle (mumble mumble Nash equilibrium) where they get hosted only in western Europe, USA and Canada over and over again
Fabrizio Genovese (Jun 19 2023 at 11:28):Xuanrui Qi said:
speaking of location, all editions of ACT up to 2023 have been held in North America or Europe, and it would be great if we could have it held somewhere else this time, e.g. in Asia
I'm all up for having a work-related reason to travel to either Asia, Australia or South America, I couldn't second this enough. Obviously the point is that it is for local groups to step up and propose the location tho, so I can only hope!
André Muricy Santos (Jun 19 2023 at 13:44):is there a place/someone i can talk to so I can get an overview of what is needed to organize such a thing? I would love to bring ACT to chalmers in sweden. I have a meeting with my supervisor on wednesday, this is one of the things I plan to bring up
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (Jun 19 2023 at 14:21):Jules Hedges said:
Right... lots of conferences get stuck in a sort of vicious circle (mumble mumble Nash equilibrium) where they get hosted only in western Europe, USA and Canada over and over again
We should have all academic conferences in Cabo Verde, because it's equally far from everyone, and for no other reason than that
John Baez (Jun 19 2023 at 15:08):Xuanrui Qi said:
speaking of location, all editions of ACT up to 2023 have been held in North America or Europe, and it would be great if we could have it held somewhere else this time, e.g. in Asia
That sounds like a great idea. For this to happen, someone in Asia needs to volunteer to hold the conference there.
John Baez (Jun 19 2023 at 15:19):André Muricy Santos said:
is there a place/someone i can talk to so I can get an overview of what is needed to organize such a thing? I would love to bring ACT to chalmers in sweden. I have a meeting with my supervisor on wednesday, this is one of the things I plan to bring up
@David Spivak at the Topos Institute created a list of things that ACT conference organizers need to do - you can see it here:
Also, I believe the entity called "FinanceAdmin" in this document is the Topos Institute.
If someone wants to organize an ACT meeting, or is thinking about it but is not sure, it would be great to mention it as the business session of the ACT conference - and also talk to previous ACT organizers, who are listed in this document.
Jules Hedges (Jun 19 2023 at 16:03):I'm entertained by how small the "sample budget" is compared to the endless sprawling spreadsheets that we ended up with
John Baez (Jun 19 2023 at 17:02):If you think your budget spreadsheets could be useful to any future ACT organizers, just to give them a sense of all the things that need to be budgeted for, I'd like a copy.
James Fairbanks (Jun 19 2023 at 17:22):André Muricy Santos said:
is there a place/someone i can talk to so I can get an overview of what is needed to organize such a thing? I would love to bring ACT to chalmers in sweden. I have a meeting with my supervisor on wednesday, this is one of the things I plan to bring up
I'll follow up
John Baez (Jun 19 2023 at 17:52):By the way, James or @Joe Moeller or @Christina Vasilakopoulou or @Sam Staton - it would be great if you could look at the ACT conference task timeline:
and see if it's missing anything big: something that future organizers should know about.
John Baez (Jun 19 2023 at 17:53):If you see something, I can edit that document. (Maybe you can too - it's on David Spivak's Google drive. But as part of the ACT conference steering committee it might be my job to do it!)
Amar Hadzihasanovic (Jun 20 2023 at 08:28):I will just add that I hope that the next editions can be spread as far away from each other as possible, but also unequivocally open to remote participation.
John Baez (Jun 20 2023 at 14:32):I completely agree that allowing remote participation is essential in the modern age, to make the conference available to people who either can't afford to travel, or simply don't want to spew tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
So far at most one group has volunteered to host the ACT conference per year, so there's never been any possibility to make decisions about where they occur. So: if anyone wants it to occur near them, they should volunteer to host it!
Joe Moeller (Jun 20 2023 at 14:36):I'll add that people should be organizing a lot more SYCOs - essentially similar to ACT except:
John Baez (Jun 20 2023 at 16:53):I agree!
John Baez (Jun 20 2023 at 16:57):For anyone who doesn't know about SYCO, go here. If you want to organize one, just contact someone on the steering committee (listed near the bottom of that page) and let them know you want to.
John Baez (Nov 23 2023 at 11:30):Here is some tentative news, just to help people start thinking about the conference Applied Category Theory 2024. It seems possible that this conference will be held at the University of Florida (in Gainesville) around the week of May 26, 2024, with the Adjoint School starting a week before, on May 19.
These details may change, so don't anything rash like booking your plane tickets until they are confirmed.
Sam Staton (Nov 24 2023 at 17:39):John Baez said:
ACT2024 will indeed be held in Oxford - the local organizer is Sam Staton.
Thanks, yes: we are planning ACT 2024 in Oxford for 17-21 June 2024, with the Adjoint School the week before. It will be co-located with MFPS.
John Baez (Jan 19 2024 at 23:12):Someone like @Spencer Breiner or @Sam Staton should update the main Applied Category Theory website, or else change the website so it doesn't require updating. Right now this website proudly announces when ACT 2023 will take place.
John Baez (Jan 19 2024 at 23:13):I'm wanting to link to this website for a grant application, and right now I have to hope nobody clicks the link and says "hmm, so maybe they don't really have an annual conference."
Kevin Arlin (Jan 19 2024 at 23:20):@Paolo Perrone and @Joshua Tan are also currently listed as editors of the site. If any of you guys would like to pass on your editorship, I bet we can find someone around Topos, such as me, to keep a closer eye on the site!
John Baez (Jan 19 2024 at 23:29):That would be great. Last year at about this time I needed to deliver a similar jolt to make sure the page got updated, and someday I'll get too old for this.
Sam Staton (Jan 20 2024 at 07:47):Good spot, but I myself have never been an editor. Please could someone add ACT 2024 (https://oxford24.github.io/).
And also please can someone separate the "statement of values" from the "code of conduct" (two separate pages)? Thanks.
Paolo Perrone (Jan 20 2024 at 10:59):Hello all. I've updated the front page with the links to the 2024 events.
I've also separated the statement of values and the code of conduct page.
Paolo Perrone (Jan 20 2024 at 11:00):I'm happy to do this whenever it's needed (just ask!), but if anyone closer to the ACT steering board wants access, that works too. Let me know.
Paolo Perrone (Jan 20 2024 at 11:12):Also, especially with grant applications in mind, I feel that that website could use a makeover.
If anyone is on board, please contact me.
John Baez (Jan 20 2024 at 17:15):By the way, the ACT conference steering board is John Baez, Bob Coecke, Simona Paoli, Dorette Pronk and David Spivak. I guess you're already "close enough" to the ACT steering board, Paolo - we just need to remember that you're the one who edits this page!
John Baez (Jan 20 2024 at 17:16):If I had access to this page and knew how to edit it (which I don't) I wouldn't have to ask you to change
Applied Category Theory follows previous events at the universities of Maryland
(2023), Strathclyde (2022), Cambridge (2021), MIT (2020), Oxford (2019) and Leiden (2018).
to
Applied Category Theory follows previous events at the universities of Maryland (2023), Strathclyde (2022), Cambridge (2021), MIT (2020), Oxford (2019) and Leiden (2018).
and make other such trivial edits.
John Baez (Jan 20 2024 at 17:18):On the other hand, I don't really have the energy to put a lot of work into this page. On the third hand, I do seem to be one of the few people who remembers that this page needs annual updating.
Paolo Perrone (Jan 20 2024 at 17:28):John Baez said:
If I had access to this page and knew how to edit it (which I don't) I wouldn't have to ask you to change
Applied Category Theory follows previous events at the universities of Maryland
(2023), Strathclyde (2022), Cambridge (2021), MIT (2020), Oxford (2019) and Leiden (2018).to
Applied Category Theory follows previous events at the universities of Maryland (2023), Strathclyde (2022), Cambridge (2021), MIT (2020), Oxford (2019) and Leiden (2018).
and make other such trivial edits.
That one seems to be a bug, unfortunately.
(Edit: fixed.)
John Baez (Jan 20 2024 at 18:28):Thanks for tackling that annoying tiny thing. On my own blog I'm constantly fixing up little problems... but I don't have to bother anyone else.
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (Jan 21 2024 at 07:44):I just noticed that the deadline for paper submission is on March 29th, while it's usually one month later in my experience. Is this a typo or a deliberate choice? (cc @Sam Staton I guess?)
Bryce Clarke (Jan 21 2024 at 07:59):I assume this is because the conference is being held in June, rather than July/August as in previous years.
Sam Staton (Jan 21 2024 at 08:53):Yes, it's deliberate. I'll post this here to be clear (was on the categories mailing list in December)
Preliminary call for papers
7th International Conference on Applied Category Theory (ACT 2024)
40th Conference on Mathematical Foundations of Programming Semantics (MFPS)
17 - 21 June 2024
Oxford, UK
https://oxford24.github.io/Preceeded by the Adjoint School
10 - 14 June 2024
https://adjointschool.com/Conference submission deadline 29 March 2024.
(Adjoint School application deadline 31 December 2023.)Programme Chairs:
David Jaz Myers, Michael Johnson (ACT)
Valeria de Paiva, Alex Simpson (MFPS)
Jules Hedges (Jan 22 2024 at 11:00):Matteo Capucci (he/him) said:
I just noticed that the deadline for paper submission is on March 29th, while it's usually one month later in my experience. Is this a typo or a deliberate choice? (cc Sam Staton I guess?)
!!! Yikes, that's during the teaching term :scream:
Jules Hedges (Jan 22 2024 at 11:01):John Baez said:
Someone like Spencer Breiner or Sam Staton should update the main Applied Category Theory website, or else change the website so it doesn't require updating. Right now this website proudly announces when ACT 2023 will take place.
This seems to happen every year, we should probably come up with a plan to be more organised about the site...
Fabrizio Romano Genovese (Jan 22 2024 at 13:32):Jules Hedges said:
Matteo Capucci (he/him) said:
I just noticed that the deadline for paper submission is on March 29th, while it's usually one month later in my experience. Is this a typo or a deliberate choice? (cc Sam Staton I guess?)
!!! Yikes, that's during the teaching term :scream:
Indeed the deadline is quite early, we noticed the same and started preparing accordingly. Please notice that the conference itself happens a month earlier, and is scheduled to be June 7th-21st.
Jules Hedges (Jan 22 2024 at 13:58):Sam Staton said:
Yes, it's deliberate. I'll post this here to be clear (was on the categories mailing list in December)
Preliminary call for papers
7th International Conference on Applied Category Theory (ACT 2024)
40th Conference on Mathematical Foundations of Programming Semantics (MFPS)
17 - 21 June 2024
Oxford, UK
https://oxford24.github.io/Preceeded by the Adjoint School
10 - 14 June 2024
https://adjointschool.com/Conference submission deadline 29 March 2024.
(Adjoint School application deadline 31 December 2023.)Programme Chairs:
David Jaz Myers, Michael Johnson (ACT)
Valeria de Paiva, Alex Simpson (MFPS)
I just forwarded this to the ACT mailing list
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (Jan 22 2024 at 16:51):Bryce Clarke said:
I assume this is because the conference is being held in June, rather than July/August as in previous years.
Ah right
John Baez (Jan 22 2024 at 16:55):Yes, we should! What is the plan?
Jules Hedges (Jan 22 2024 at 16:56):Jules Hedges said:
John Baez said:
Someone like Spencer Breiner or Sam Staton should update the main Applied Category Theory website, or else change the website so it doesn't require updating. Right now this website proudly announces when ACT 2023 will take place.
This seems to happen every year, we should probably come up with a plan to be more organised about the site...
I assume this was in response to this?
Jules Hedges (Jan 22 2024 at 16:57):If there is an existing plan to communicate things to each year's organisers, this can be subsumed into that
John Baez (Jan 22 2024 at 17:00):Yes, I was indeed responding to your "we should probably come up with a plan" - sometimes on Zulip I see a comment and think it's the last when it's not.
Since I'm on the ACT conference steering board, I'll get David Spivak to add this item to our annual "to do" list.
John Baez (Jan 22 2024 at 17:11):I sent him an email.
John Baez (Jan 22 2024 at 19:06):Okay, now the to-do list includes a reminder for all ACT conference organizers to update this page.
Bryce Clarke (Jan 30 2024 at 09:43):Hi, does anyone know if the paper format and length (12 pages in EPTCS style) for submissions is unchanged from ACT 2023? @David Jaz maybe?
David Jaz (Jan 30 2024 at 09:47):Hi Bryce, the submission format is unchanged and we’re using EPTCS again this year. Cheers.
Bryce Clarke (Jan 30 2024 at 09:48):Thanks David for the quick reply!
David Jaz (Mar 14 2024 at 20:10):Here is the full call for papers:
7th Annual International Conference on Applied Category Theory (ACT2024)
17 - 21 June 2024
Https://oxford24.Github.Io/
The Seventh International Conference on Applied Category Theory will take place at the University of Oxford from 17 - 21 June 2024, preceded by the Adjoint School 2024 from 10-14 July. This year, the ACT conference will be co-located with the 40th conference on Mathematical Foundations of Programming Semantics (MFPS). This conference follows previous events at University of Maryland College Park (MD), Strathclyde (UK), Cambridge (UK), Cambridge (MA), Oxford (UK) and Leiden (NL).
Call for Papers
Applied category theory is important to a growing community of researchers who study computer science, logic, engineering, physics, biology, chemistry, social science, systems, linguistics and other subjects using category-theoretic tools. The background and experience of our members is as varied as the systems being studied. The goal of the applied category theory conference series is to bring researchers together, strengthen the applied category theory community, disseminate the latest results, and facilitate further development of the field.
Submissions
We accept submissions in English of original research papers, talks about work accepted/submitted/published elsewhere, and demonstrations of relevant software. Accepted original research papers will be published in a proceedings volume. The conference will include an industry showcase event and community meeting. We particularly encourage people from underrepresented groups to submit their work and the organizers are committed to non-discrimination, equity, and inclusion.
Conference papers should present original, high-quality work in the style of a computer science conference paper (up to 12 pages, not counting the bibliography; more detailed parts of proofs may be included in an appendix for the convenience of the reviewers). Such submissions should not be an abridged version of an existing journal article although pre-submission arxiv preprints are permitted. These submissions will be adjudicated for both a talk and publication in the conference proceedings.
Talk proposals not to be published in the proceedings or about work accepted/submitted/published elsewhere,should be submitted as abstracts, one or two pages long. Authors are encouraged to include links to any full versions of their papers, preprints or manuscripts. The purpose of the abstract is to provide a basis for determining the topics and quality of the anticipated presentation.
Software demonstration proposals should also be submitted as abstracts, one or two pages. The purpose of the abstract is to provide the program committee with enough information to assess the content of the demonstration.
The selected conference papers are expected to be published with EPTCS, and authors are advised to use the style files available at style.eptcs.org.
Submission, dates and deadlines:
The exact deadline time on these dates is given by anywhere on earth (AoE).
Abstract registration by 26 March 2024
Papers due 29 March 2024
Author notification in 3 May 2024
Conference 17 - 21 June 2024
(Reviewing will be single-blind, and we are not making public the reviews, reviewer names, the discussions nor the list of under-review submissions. This is the same as previous instances of ACT.)
Limited financial support will be available for travel. Priority will be given to people with financial need and those giving presentations. We are also aware that not everyone is able to travel to the UK, e.g. For visa reasons, and we will accommodate that in the programme via remote participation etc..
Please contact the organizers for more information.
Program committee chairs:
David Jaz Myers (Abu Dhabi) and Michael Johnson (Sydney)
Programme Committee:
Benedikt Ahrens, Delft University of Technology and University of Birmingham
Dylan Braithwaite, University of Strathclyde
Spencer Breiner, NIST
Matteo Capucci, University of Strathclyde
Titouan Carette, University of Latvia
Bryce Clarke, Inria Saclay Centre
Greta Coraglia, University of Milan
Geoffrey Cruttwell, Mount Allison University
Bojana Femic, Serbian Academy of Sciences And Arts
Fabio Gadducci, University of Pisa
Richard Garner, Macquarie University
Neil Ghani, University of Strathclyde
Amar Hadzihasanovic, Tallinn University of Technology
Martha Lewis, University of Bristol
Sophie Libkind, Topos Institute
Rory Lucyshyn-wright, Brandon University
Owen Lynch, Topos Institute
Sean Moss, University of Oxford
Evan Patterson, Topos Institute
Paolo Perrone, University of Oxford
Paige Randall North, University of Utrecht
Sophie Raynor, James Cook University
Emily Roff, University of Edinburgh
Morgan Rogers, Université Sorbonne Paris Nord
Mario Román, Tallinn University of Technology
Maru Sarazola, University of Minnesota
Bas Spitters, Aarhus University
Priyaa Varshinee Srinivasan, Topos Institute
Sam Staton, University of Oxford
Dario Stein, Radboud University Nijmegen
Eswaran Subrahmanian, Nist, CMU
Ana Luiza da Conceição Tenorio, University of São Paulo
Kobe Wullaert, Delft University of Technology
Ryan Wisnesky, Conexus
Vladimir Zamdzhiev, Inria
Fabio Zanasi, University College London
Mathew Di Meglio, University of Edinburgh
Hi @David Jaz , thanks for this information. Do you have an estimate of when the submission link will be available?
Christian Williams (Mar 15 2024 at 22:26):(Also, the submission is asking for DOIs - do TAC articles not have them? I haven't found any.)
Evan Patterson (Mar 15 2024 at 22:44):TAC articles do not have DOIs, unfortunately.
John Baez (Mar 15 2024 at 23:08):This is an issue we've been talking about... a bunch of us want TAC to get DOIs, but I'm not sure the concern has really filtered up to the editor, Geoff Crutwell. @Chris Grossack (they/them) has contacted Geoff but I don't think much came of it. They don't cost much but it takes a bit of work.
Chris Grossack (they/them) (Mar 15 2024 at 23:11):Actually it's been a little while since I reached out... I'm still willing to do much of the work (by which I mean write a program to do much of the work. It looks easily-automated since TAC already has a bunch of citation information on the pages hosting each article)
Chris Grossack (they/them) (Mar 15 2024 at 23:11):Maybe I'll send a follow up email early next week
John Baez (Mar 15 2024 at 23:13):Did Geoff ever respond to any emails about this? I forget.
Chris Grossack (they/them) (Mar 15 2024 at 23:16):I don't think so. Lemme double check
Chris Grossack (they/them) (Mar 15 2024 at 23:16):There was one reply asking some clarifying questions in return (where did the price estimates come from, exactly how much time am I willing to volunteer, etc), and I answered those questions but haven't heard anything since
Chris Grossack (they/them) (Mar 15 2024 at 23:16):This was June of last year, so a poke is probably fine at this point, haha
John Baez (Mar 15 2024 at 23:30):Yes, nothing will happen unless we push. And if Geoff doesn't respond to you, some more established category theorists should do some pushing.
Chris Grossack (they/them) (Mar 15 2024 at 23:31):I'll CC you again, haha
Morgan Rogers (he/him) (Mar 16 2024 at 07:56):TAC is quite behind on publishing btw. I have an article that was accepted over six months ago (iirc) that has yet to appear on the website. Maybe there are some other difficulties happening behind the scenes.
Gabriel Goren Roig (Mar 16 2024 at 14:00):Bryce Clarke said:
Hi David Jaz , thanks for this information. Do you have an estimate of when the submission link will be available?
I'd like to second the question here, @David Jaz. I would also like to ask for clarification on what is meant by "Abstract registration by 26 March 2024". Is this an updated, earlier deadline for talk proposals? Or is this a deadline to pre-register a short abstract for any submissions, be they conference papers or talk proposals?
David Jaz (Mar 16 2024 at 14:55):Thanks for the questions @Bryce Clarke and @Gabriel Goren Roig . You will need to submit a title and short text abstract by the abstract submission deadline, while you have until the submission deadline to upload your pdf submission (extended abstract or paper for proceedings). You will not be able to edit your title or text abstract after the registration deadline.
Cheers,
David
Christian Williams (Mar 18 2024 at 16:45):The submission link is now on https://oxford24.github.io/act_cfp.html
Davi Sales Barreira (Mar 22 2024 at 11:36):Hopefully this is the correct stream to post this question.
I have submitted a paper to a data visualization conference in which I applied Category Theory in order to formalize some aspects of data viz (using categorical programming per defined by Dominic Orchard). In the process, I've also implemented a visualization package. Since the paper is for a data viz conference, I just sketched the categorical aspects. I was wondering if, for the ACT conference, it would be the case of writing another paper with an emphasis on the categorical aspects. Or if this would be "self-plagiarism", and if instead I should just submit the same paper I'm submitting to the other conference, but then adding some supplemental material.
Dylan Braithwaite (Mar 22 2024 at 12:35):Davi Sales Barreira said:
if instead I should just submit the same paper I'm submitting to the other conference, but then adding some supplemental material.
If the other conference publishes proceedings, then I think this is explicitly disallowed. Conferences typically require that papers have not been submitted for publication elsewhere at the same time. You can however submit an abstract for a non-proceedings talk, or a tool demo, but this has a limit of 2 pages, so you wouldn't be able to just submit the original paper.
If you want to write another paper on the categorical aspects, then as far as I understand, as long as you make it clear up-front which aspects belong to the other paper, and which are the novel contributions of the current paper, this is technically fine. It's another question however, as to whether the contents of the paper, minus all of the content that has already been submitted elsewhere, would be enough of a contribution to be suitable as a proceedings paper.
If the paper is going to be along the lines of "here is an algorithm which I have published elsewhere, but explained using more mathematical language", then I would probably suggest to instead submit for a non-proceedings talk or a tool demo. But if your paper could be more along the lines of "here are some mathematical ideas I developed while working on an algorithm, and here's are some theorems that justify or explain the algorithm", then maybe this would be more suitable for a full conference paper
Davi Sales Barreira (Mar 22 2024 at 12:42):Thanks, @Dylan Braithwaite .
John Baez (Mar 22 2024 at 17:57):Dylan Braithwaite said:
Davi Sales Barreira said:
. I was wondering [...] if instead I should just submit the same paper I'm submitting to the other conference, but then adding some supplemental material.
If the other conference publishes proceedings, then I think this is explicitly disallowed. Conferences typically require that papers have not been submitted for publication elsewhere at the same time.
Yes, that's clear from the ACT2024 website. More precisely, ACT allows 3 kinds of submissions, and those where you are trying to publish a paper in ACT2024 are disjoint from those where you've submitted the paper elsewhere.
We accept submissions in English of original research papers, talks about work accepted/submitted/published elsewhere, and demonstrations of relevant software.
John Baez (Mar 22 2024 at 18:01):In my culture, submitting the same paper at the same time for publication in several different venues has roughly the same moral status as proposing marriage to several different people at the same time. What you're supposed to do is propose marriage to one person. If they reject you, you are then free to propose to someone else.
Cole Comfort (Mar 22 2024 at 18:37):John Baez said:
In my culture, submitting the same paper at the same time for publication in several different venues has roughly the same moral status as proposing marriage to several different people at the same time. What you're supposed to do is propose marriage to one person. If they reject you, you are then free to propose to someone else.
However, I would say that nowadays it is considerably less common for one to have a list of alternative brides/grooms lined up... than it is for one to have a list of alternative publication venues.
Davi Sales Barreira (Mar 22 2024 at 19:40):Sorry, I realize my english got the best of me. What I meant by "submitting the same paper" was for the non-publishing track. The question was whether it would make sense, since the original paper didn't go into the detailed categorical construction.
fosco (Mar 24 2024 at 12:34):John Baez said:
In my culture, submitting the same paper at the same time for publication in several different venues has roughly the same moral status as proposing marriage to several different people at the same time. What you're supposed to do is propose marriage to one person. If they reject you, you are then free to propose to someone else.
Alternatives are possible, both in matters of publishing and of spouses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy
John Baez (Mar 24 2024 at 18:16):Yes, that's why I said "In my culture" - I didn't want to step on my own joke with more obtrusive caveats.
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (May 05 2024 at 09:46):Hello, I feel stupid but I can't find where to register for the conference. Can somebody enlighten me?
John Baez (May 05 2024 at 11:05):I don't the organizers (e.g. @Sam Staton) have provided a way to register for the conference.
Sam Staton (May 05 2024 at 11:27):Hi, That's right, the registration site is not open yet. https://oxford24.github.io/local.html
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (May 05 2024 at 19:14):Ok thanks!
Amar Hadzihasanovic (May 07 2024 at 08:04):I would just like to urge the organisers (e.g. @David Jaz) to post the list of members of the program committee, including chairs, on the ACT 2024 website!
Amar Hadzihasanovic (May 07 2024 at 08:05):As decisions have been sent, I don't think it is fair that the decisions come from a “nameless” committee...
John Baez (May 07 2024 at 09:44):As part of the ACT "steering committee", one of my jobs is to make sure the conference organizers remember to do the things that are on the list of things for conference organizers to do. (Ugh, what an ugly sentence!) Also to keep updating this list. Each year we make this list available to the organizers, but each year the organizers forget some of the things they need to do.
You'll notice that for ACT 2023, there was a page listing everyone involved in the conference and their roles. We need that for ACT 2024 too, for many reasons.
John Baez (May 07 2024 at 10:42):Beside the reason Amar pointed out, the program committee chairs, program committee, organizing committee and steering committee are doing a lot of work and would like to be visibly credited for it. Every conference does this.
David Jaz (May 07 2024 at 10:58):Hi both, thanks for bringing this up, we’ll work on it ASAP.
John Baez (May 07 2024 at 11:07):Thanks! Sorry to sound scoldy.
Cole Comfort (May 09 2024 at 17:25):Do the organizers know when the cost of the registration fee will be announced, or have a rough estimate? I have to forecast the cost of my trip before I can send the form to administrators, and probably other people do as well.
Sam Staton (May 09 2024 at 19:26):Hi Cole, I'm waiting for some administrators, hoping registration will open next week.
Sam Staton (May 10 2024 at 06:11):If anyone needs a rough estimate of the fee before then, I'm happy to reply privately.
Cole Comfort (May 16 2024 at 07:55):Amar Hadzihasanovic said:
I would just like to urge the organisers (e.g. David Jaz) to post the list of members of the program committee, including chairs, on the ACT 2024 website!
Will the list of accepted talks be posted on the website before the conference?
John Baez (May 16 2024 at 07:58):It had better be!
Bryce Clarke (May 17 2024 at 09:00):On the ACT 2024 website:
There will be a registration fee to cover room hire and so on. Registration is not open yet. Here are approximate earlybird registration fees. Registration does not include meals or accommodation.
- Five days: £140
- Wed-Fri: £110
- Five days student: £40
- Wed-Fri student: £30
- MFPS banquet: £50 (TBC)
Chad Nester (May 17 2024 at 09:15):So, can anyone attend the MFPS banquet?
Sam Staton (May 17 2024 at 09:18):Yes (although the room has a limited capacity). Also the price of that might vary, I am double-checking a few things on that.
Sam Staton (May 17 2024 at 09:23):(The long story is just that ACT and MFPS have slightly different precedents, I don't think ACT ever had a dinner, and so we're trying to accommodate both without making anyone feel coerced.)
Cole Comfort (May 17 2024 at 09:42):@Sam Staton ACT had a dinner when it was hosted in Strathclyde and I think it was around the same price.
Cole Comfort (May 17 2024 at 09:52):But the registration fee was lower, so altogether it would cost a bit more (if I recall everything correctly).
Sam Staton (May 24 2024 at 08:48):Hi, ACT and MFPS registration is now open!
https://oxford24.github.io/local.html
Students from just £30.
List of talks: https://oxford24.github.io/all-talks.html
Looking forward to seeing everyone in Oxford!
Key dates if you missed them:
Matteo Capucci (he/him) (May 25 2024 at 06:41):Thanks for all your work! I really appreciated the low student fee and the disjointed dinner fee.
Gabriel Goren Roig (May 26 2024 at 23:27):With respect to the dinner, what does "delegate" mean? The ACT&MFPS website says "This is an option for all delegates" while the registration page says "delegates only". I appreciate the if and only if, but I'm missing a key piece of information :sweat_smile:
(From the accompanying text I guess delegates are those who give talks?)
Valeria de Paiva (May 27 2024 at 05:20):well, I believe "delegate" simply means someone who registered for either ACT or MFPS. the idea is that anyone in the conference can go to the dinner, you don't have be a speaker.
Sam Staton (May 27 2024 at 06:18):Thanks @Valeria de Paiva Yes that's what I meant too. I think it's a meaning that's often used but I appreciate it's unclear who is doing the "delegating"! So I've tried to clarify it on the website but I'm not sure I can change the actual registration system. You don't need to be a speaker to register for the MFPS dinner, @Gabriel Goren Roig . Let me know if anything is still unclear.
Jules Hedges (May 27 2024 at 13:09):I'm really kicking myself for being the one responsible for introducing registration fees to ACT 2 years ago. That was GBP 20 for everybody and we did it as a nudge because we needed to be confident how many people were coming because of the university's covid regulations at the time. For the first 4 years, ACT was free to attend
Dylan Braithwaite (May 27 2024 at 13:47):Jules Hedges said:
I'm really kicking myself for being the one responsible for introducing registration fees to ACT 2 years ago. That was GBP 20 for everybody and we did it as a nudge because we needed to be confident how many people were coming because of the university's covid regulations at the time. For the first 4 years, ACT was free to attend
I'm fairly sure I remember paying a registration fee for the one before that, in Cambridge
Bryce Clarke (May 27 2024 at 13:52):In Oxford 2019, I paid a 50 GBP registration fee. I have no idea if this was for students or everyone. I do wonder why ACT has had a large increase this year compared to previous years.
Sam Staton (May 27 2024 at 13:57):I don't think people mind paying for their own coffee/tea/etc? That's what the student rate covers (£30-40), and indeed it's less than the Oxford 2019 fee. The rest is pretty complicated, please can we discuss it at the community meeting or in a separate thread? (perhaps we need a thread about conference fees generally)
Sam Staton (May 27 2024 at 13:57):Meanwhile if anyone has personal trouble paying the full fee, please just send me a message, we want everyone to attend.
Jules Hedges (May 27 2024 at 19:44):Oh yeah, I should specify that I meant no shade to the organisers, I know what a nightmare organising is and how quickly the budget can run away from you. I'm personally considering the fees this year to be not-totally-unreasonable. I just had a horrible vision of the future where we turn into something like POPL where a full ticket is around USD 2000
Hugo Paquet (May 28 2024 at 07:44):Hi @Sam Staton, sorry if this has been asked here before, will it be possible to follow the talks remotely?
Sam Staton (May 28 2024 at 08:26):Hi @Hugo Paquet I've put this at https://oxford24.github.io/local.html .
Sam Staton (May 28 2024 at 08:27):@Jules Hedges Never mind POPL, let's aim for the 18000 attendees that Morgan mentioned on the Tallinn thread! :laughing:
Morgan Rogers (he/him) (May 28 2024 at 09:18):Haha when we get to the stage that CT conferences are annually hiring out an entire conference center I hope I'll be able to stop complaining about conference fees.
Jules Hedges (Jun 04 2024 at 14:56):Anyone happen to know whether we get any extra page limit on accepted papers? I think that was the case in at least some previous years (If nobody knows, I'll do the actually right thing and email the heads of PC, which is David Jaz Myers and Mike Johnson)
Jules Hedges (Jun 04 2024 at 14:57):We were just talking about which parts of the paper we should delete to make space for the stuff reviewers asked for
Thea Li (Jun 04 2024 at 20:27):Jules Hedges said:
Anyone happen to know whether we get any extra page limit on accepted papers? I think that was the case in at least some previous years (If nobody knows, I'll do the actually right thing and email the heads of PC, which is David Jaz Myers and Mike Johnson)
I think I was told 20 in total, 16 excluding appendices and references, please correct me if I am wrong though
JS PL (he/him) (Jun 05 2024 at 05:31):Just confirming: we have not yet received any instructions/email about preparing the final version correct? (No deadline date or page limit info etc.)
Valeria de Paiva (Jun 05 2024 at 05:42):hi, yes we have sent instructions for final versions of papers for
pre-proceedings and we have received yours, as Alex acknowledged on the
1st of June. If you are talking about the journal after the meeting, this
has not been emailed yet, this is after the meeting. the point to note is
the prefix "pre" in pre-proceedings.
I believe Jules and Thea are talking about ACT where the model is different.
JS PL (he/him) (Jun 05 2024 at 05:44):Valeria de Paiva said:
hi, yes we have sent instructions for final versions of papers for
pre-proceedings and we have received yours, as Alex acknowledged on the
1st of June. If you are talking about the journal after the meeting, this
has not been emailed yet, this is after the meeting. the point to note is
the prefix "pre" in pre-proceedings.
Thanks @Valeria de Paiva but sorry I was talking about ACT proceedings. (I did get Alex’ email confirming the final version of my MFPS paper)
Valeria de Paiva (Jun 05 2024 at 05:45):messages crossed in the ether. I don't know the proceedings for ACT this year.
Thea Li (Jun 05 2024 at 07:52):JS PL (he/him) said:
Just confirming: we have not yet received any instructions/email about preparing the final version correct? (No deadline date or page limit info etc.)
I emailed the organizers to know the page limit, but I don't think they have made an announcement about it
Jules Hedges (Jun 05 2024 at 09:59):Thanks!
Bryce Clarke (Jun 07 2024 at 11:06):Are the organisers able to give an update on the programme for ACT? When should we expect this to be available?
John Baez (Jun 07 2024 at 11:13):Ping @Sam Staton, @David Jaz and other organizers if you want a response! The ACT2024 website is deficient this year since it doesn't even list the organizers, though at least now it lists the program committee. This is fine if the organizers don't want to be known and don't want to be bothered, but for a typical conference it's easy to see who is running it.
Sam Staton (Jun 07 2024 at 11:16):Hi here's a draft schedule. I held off linking it in case they are still changing fine details but it seems to be pretty stable.
Sam Staton (Jun 07 2024 at 11:16):https://oxford24.github.io/schedule.html
Sam Staton (Jun 09 2024 at 06:20):(I've now put a list of organizers at https://oxford24.github.io/local-org.html . I can flesh it out in due course.
Don't worry, I have been getting my fair share of email! My name was always on the local organization page but perhaps a little hidden. I agree a clear list is important for accountability and posterity.)
Sam Staton (Jun 12 2024 at 13:59):If you'd like to receive zoom links for ACT & MFPS next week, please fill in this form. https://forms.gle/iE94kFxBcc2x8V749
Christian Williams (Jun 13 2024 at 20:20):It's been 5 (long) years since the last time I could be there. Excited to see the community again!
JS PL (he/him) (Jun 14 2024 at 10:03):@Sam Staton , when and where is the conference dinner? I can't find the information on the website. Thanks!
Cole Comfort (Jun 14 2024 at 12:06):@JS PL (he/him) I think the registration for the conference dinner is closed. I had some administrative problems with registering for the conference (on my side) and by the time that I got it figured out, the option to register for the dinner had disappeared.
JS PL (he/him) (Jun 14 2024 at 12:12):Oh I’m already registered for the dinner. I just didn’t register the details of when it is
Sam Staton (Jun 14 2024 at 20:17):Hi @JS PL (he/him), It's at St Anne's on Wednesday at 6:30. I've now put it on the programme, thanks (it was previously on the maps page). Hi @Cole Comfort, unfortunately yes I kept it open a bit longer but we've now sold out of those dinner tickets, very sorry.
Sam Staton (Jun 16 2024 at 21:32):We hope to stream the ACT+MFPS talks on Zoom and we have a discord server for discussions. Is there somewhere not mirrored on this zulip that I can post the links to these? (to avoid zoom-bombs etc)
Tim Hosgood (Jun 16 2024 at 21:38):is there any registration event tomorrow before the first talk, or do we just show up at 9am and dive straight in?
Jean-Baptiste Vienney (Jun 17 2024 at 01:20):Sam Staton said:
We hope to stream the ACT+MFPS talks on Zoom and we have a discord server for discussions. Is there somewhere not mirrored on this zulip that I can post the links to these? (to avoid zoom-bombs etc)
Maybe, you could post a message: "Please put a :+1: under this message if you want the Zoom and Discord links and I'll send them to you in DM?" The technique of the thumb under a message has been used successfully a few times on this zulip. Usually, a number of people around 10 to 20 (or less) respond to such a request.
Jean-Baptiste Vienney (Jun 17 2024 at 01:45):So that it should not take much time to verify the identity of the people who respond.
CB Wells (Jun 17 2024 at 03:55):Second on Tim's question; I thought there would be some time before the first talk. Maybe arrival could be 8:30?
Also, is there a fridge (for bringing lunch)? And is there a printer? Thanks.
Sam Staton (Jun 17 2024 at 05:45):For registration, yes we have some badges to hand out. 08:45 should be fine, maybe a bit earlier will be fine too, it depends how early we can get the door held open. If you arrive and the door isn't open yet, please post a message on discord and if someone's there we can let you in.
Sam Staton (Jun 17 2024 at 05:56):For fridge, I'm sorry, we don't have any special fridge capacity. We also don't really have space for eating lunch indoors in our building, today at least, unfortunately, but there is a nice big park opposite and it's getting warmer.
If you have a special dietary issue or meds then we should be able to help with a fridge so let a local volunteer know.
Similar for a printer, please just ask a local volunteer.
You can find them on discord. Which bring me back to the question about posting discord links.
Sam Staton (Jun 17 2024 at 06:01):Thanks @Jean-Baptiste Vienney I've sent the links to you, not sure I will keep up through the day though. Feel free to post them on here if there is a non-public channel.
Adittya Chaudhuri (Jun 17 2024 at 07:35):Hi @Sam Staton! I have not been able to see the Zoom links till now here: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/people/samuel.staton/2024actmfpszoom.html. Can you please provide me with the link?
Adittya Chaudhuri (Jun 17 2024 at 07:50):Got the link! It's there on the site. Thanks!
Sam Staton (Jun 17 2024 at 08:20):Also now on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEh4VKA9Uac
Cole Comfort (Jun 22 2024 at 10:37):Is anyone still in Oxford today/can someone send me a copy of the discord link.
Valeria de Paiva (Jun 22 2024 at 16:00):(deleted)
Tim Hosgood (Jun 24 2024 at 16:58):thank you to the organisers for the event! given the number of people and the size of the venues, i think it all went very well :-)
Sam Staton (Jun 25 2024 at 20:35):Thanks, I enjoyed it a lot. I guess you've seen, but here is the group photo.
ACT-2024-full.jpeg
https://oxford24.github.io/photo.html
David Michael Roberts (Jun 26 2024 at 02:24):Will any talk videos be posted publicly?
Valeria de Paiva (Jun 26 2024 at 05:01):Lovely photo @Sam Staton ! Glad to see the large audience!
maybe the Steering Committee could share some numbers later on.
Paolo Perrone (Jul 01 2024 at 23:41):Hi all. We are uploading the video recordings, see this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNEYE1ojDrqdGvhqe5PuCgJ2mtOOnJLGs
The first day should be up already, the other videos should appear in the next few days.
Please check that everything is in order, and let us know otherwise!
(Some videos have lower resolution, and that's unfortunately beyond our control. The slides should still be readable.)
Paolo Perrone (Jul 05 2024 at 15:55):Paolo Perrone said:
Hi all. We are uploading the video recordings, see this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNEYE1ojDrqdGvhqe5PuCgJ2mtOOnJLGs
The first day should be up already, the other videos should appear in the next few days.
Please check that everything is in order, and let us know otherwise!(Some videos have lower resolution, and that's unfortunately beyond our control. The slides should still be readable.)
Okay, all the talks are now online.
(At least, all the ones for which we have a video.)
Zoltan A. Kocsis (Z.A.K.) (Jul 05 2024 at 16:20):Thanks a lot for making these available, @Paolo Perrone.
Corrections:
definite: The name Boldizsár Poór contains a typo. It should read ZS, not SZ.
potential: A private video appears between the talks by B. Peterseim and M. Lawson.
Paolo Perrone (Jul 05 2024 at 16:29):Zoltan A. Kocsis (Z.A.K.) said:
Thanks a lot for making these available, Paolo Perrone.
Corrections:
definite: The name Boldizsár Poór contains a typo. It should read ZS, not SZ.
potential: A private video appears between the talks by B. Peterseim and M. Lawson.
Thank you for those. Should be fixed now.
JS PL (he/him) (Jul 25 2024 at 00:28):Thea Li said:
JS PL (he/him) said:
Just confirming: we have not yet received any instructions/email about preparing the final version correct? (No deadline date or page limit info etc.)
I emailed the organizers to know the page limit, but I don't think they have made an announcement about it
Just wondering if there's been an update/any new information about this.
John Baez (Jul 25 2024 at 07:24):I haven't seen anything. Expect everything to move slowly.
Sam Staton (Jul 25 2024 at 07:25):I think this is a question for @David Jaz and Michael Johnson.